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    Thu, 29Apr04, 05:24 PM EDT Contributed by:Greyhawk68 Views: 2479

    In the NewsIn the May 18th issue of PC Magazine, the Forward Thinking column by Michael J. Miller talks about the benefits of offshore outsourcing. Here's a quote:

    "Interestingly, Global Insight says that rather than reducing the number of jobs in the U.S. offshoring is lowering costs for everyone and actually creating jobs, thanks to a more efficient economy."
    Personally, I see that as one of the biggest lies we are hearing about this sort of thing. Taking away jobs may create new ones, they'll just be shittier lower paying ones. That does nothing for the workers who have toiled for years to get where they are, only to be downsized.

    In the same issue, John C. Dvorak (who I don't always agree with) takes huge issue with offshoring in his piece entitled "Scams, Lies, Deceit and Offshoring" Here's a piece:
    "This is a bait-and-swith scheme that is designed to screw older and more experienced workers out of their retirement benefits, plain and simple."
    I couldn't agree more. I may be more bitter than most, being recently downsized myself, but to me, corporations sending jobs overseas hurts us all. Mr. Dvorak seems to agree:
    "Although I appreciate some aspects of globalization, I can't excuse the cavalier attitude toward fellow Americans that we see among large corporations who benefit from the free-enterprise system and the American infrastructure. It will come back to haunt them all."
    Amen. Make sure you check out PC Magazine for both sides to the story.

             

    PC Magazine: Benefits of Offshore Outsourcing | 9 comments | Create New Account
    The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.

    PC Magazine: Benefits of Offshore Outsourcing
    Authored by: jmichael on Thu, 29Apr04, 08:37 PM EDT
    I'm sure the positive effects of offshore outsourcing for the US economy (or any other economy) is something that was created out of a bunch of numbers and some crazy formulas by some MBA's Excel sheet. I just don't see it happening. Except maybe once China starts outsourcing, as was speculated here in a great article by MidasGuy, which unfortunately seems to have gone unnoticed by most.
    [ Reply to This ]
    PC Magazine: Benefits of Offshore Outsourcing
    Authored by: tcgathens on Fri, 30Apr04, 09:49 AM EDT
    John,

    I just do not like the concept of offshoring period. My first exposure to it was in the early '80s when IBM "offshored" thousands of jobs from its birthplace in Endicott, NY to Charlotte, NC. The impact on the economy in the Binghamton-Endicott-Johnson City NY area has been devastating. Just over 20 months ago, IBM sold their last owned facility in Endicott to a group who feared an offshore company would buy it and shut it down. The only legacy IBM has left in its birthplace is dangerous groundwater contamination:

    http://www.pressconnects.com/special/endicottspill/

    I make this analogy because it all comes down to the basic issue of corporate responsibility vs bottom line profits. By moving jobs and closing facilities, we erode the tax base that is used to pay for community services, schools, etc. Corporations are abandoning their societal obligations, plain and simple.

    As Americans, we want things as cheaply as possible, yet complain when jobs move offshore to make this happen and we complain when the quality goes down. We demand more and more government services, yet we whine when taxes have to go up. We cannot continue to have it both ways.

    I make this analogy because offshoring is slowly destroying the fabric of American society, reducing our standard of living (which some will say was inevitable), and making it increasingly difficult to support a family on one income (remember those days?).

    What we as IT professionals need to do is shift our focus to skill sets that cannot be offshored. I am lucky in one sense because I spent 12 years as a Federal Employee and have non-competitive reinstatement rights. If worse came to worse, that I could use these rights to go back to work as a Contracting Officer (procurement) or as an IT Specialist. I also passed the CPA Exam back in '95, so auditing (which cannot be offshored) is an option as well. In fact, that is why I am preparing to sit for the CISA exam in June. I would rather do this than go back to the Government, but it is important I keep my options open, as we all must do.

    Finally, there is no need for you to use profanity in your posting. This is unacceptable and further example of how we erode our own personal standards (and a failure of your societal obligations). There is nothing worse than taking my kids to a public event and hearing the "younger generation" (yes I am now an old codger:-) ) saying "F*** this" or being on the cell phone telling someone to bring their "S***" over. My kids then ask me what those words are. The worst example was when I took my kids to Cirque de Soleil last year. During intermission, the couple in front of us took out their self made erotic photos and started looking at them in plain site of everybody around. It was quite a challenge keeping my 5 year old's eyes diverted.

    Just my 2.5 cents worth.

    [ Reply to This ]
    PC Magazine: Benefits of Offshore Outsourcing
    Authored by: MidasGuy on Fri, 30Apr04, 11:00 AM EDT
    I must say I agree with both points (regarding corporate responsibility and language).
    [ Reply to This ]
    PC Magazine: Benefits of Offshore Outsourcing
    Authored by: Greyhawk68 on Fri, 30Apr04, 12:22 PM EDT
    I apologize if I offended. I didn't realize that the S word was that big of a deal in today's society. But as a forum for adults, at least it wasn't in an area where children would be subjected to it.

    I'll keep my more colorful language at my blog :-) Sorry again!

    Take Care,
    Grey

    [ Reply to This ]
    PC Magazine: Benefits of Offshore Outsourcing
    Authored by: tcgathens on Fri, 30Apr04, 01:02 PM EDT
    "I didn't realize that the S word was that big of a deal in today's society."

    That is part of the problem of society: what is or is not acceptable; or what should or should not be acceptable.

    I know that language, and the use of it, changes over time. But, and this is a CAPITAL BUT, any web site/blog that represents the public point of view of a PROFESSIONAL (IT or otherwise), should not use profanity. It is a mirror of the person posting it.

    Blogs can be a wonderful marketing tool (whether that is the intention or not), so you have to be careful.

    For this reason, and I am sorry if it is so 'old school', I would never hire a customer facing employee/consultant that:

    1. Use Profanity in writing or verbal conversation. 2. Has visible tattoos; 3. Has visible body piercings other than the ears, and even then it must be conservative when in front of a customer.

    and guess what? This has been upheld as acceptable and non-discriminatory by the courts.

    now my 3.5 cents worth:-)

    Peace

    [ Reply to This ]
    PC Magazine: Benefits of Offshore Outsourcing
    Authored by: Greyhawk68 on Fri, 30Apr04, 05:41 PM EDT
    The problem I have is what IS and what IS NOT considered profanity? If I would have used "crappy" instead of the other word would it have been okay? Trust me, I'm not being sarcastic here. Language is really interesting to me (coming from a communications background) and the difference between what is considered vulgar and what is fine is such a personal one to people, I'm just interested in what people think.

    In fact the word "shit" has become acceptable on network TV. It's been said on Monday Night Football, it's no longer bleeped on mainstream MTV and South Park tested the theory by saying the word 162 times in an episode with no repurcussions.

    Now I'm not condoning it, I'll definitely keep my posts here clean, but things that were not so acceptable in the past are slowly changing, when certain vernacular becomes acceptable, when does everyone accept it?

    I think many people place too much emphasis on words and not the message it's supposed to convey. Sometimes a well placed expletive conveys a much sharper meaning than something without it.

    For the record, I don't cuss in front of kids or in mixed company that I don't know well, but I see nothing wrong with cussing in general. To me they are just words, and not indicative of something deeper wrong with a person.

    I'm really curious as to what everyone thinks. I'll post a topic on my blog, and I would live everyone to come over to discuss. Obviously this really isn't the place. We should get back to the normal topics on hand.

    Outsourcing = Bad. :-)
    [ Reply to This ]
    PC Magazine: Benefits of Offshore Outsourcing
    Authored by: MidasGuy on Sat, 01May04, 08:58 AM EDT
    Regarding the language, I agree that it is difficult to know what is and what isn't acceptable. Some things which I wouldn't think of as offensive at all are considered offensive in the IK or Australia.

    As for outsourcing/off-shoring/etc., it is a difficult thing. I would strongly like to discourage the "free trade" which is just an excuse for corporations to shop around for who has the lowest standards for the environment, worker safety, labor laws, unionization, etc., but I don't want to stop the ability for fair trade agreements between companies
    [ Reply to This ]
    PC Magazine: Benefits of Offshore Outsourcing
    Authored by: thomasyung on Sun, 02May04, 01:47 AM EDT
    Offshoring to me is an ethical issue buried inside an economical issue. I believe that offshoring for the purpose of replacing current workers for cheaper workers is an unethical practice. I've taken business law classes and the class discussed this issue in depth. Although from an macro-economical point of view, offshoring has a positive effect for the global economy, the micro-economics view is definitely undesireable for the near term. As far as future benefits, I am a little pessemistic that it will achieve what the pro-offshoring people are saying. It may benefit the world economy only if all nations are at the same socio-economic level. In reality, I believe that it will end up bringing the standard of living down a few notches for all countries that engage in this practice. I like to think of it as a game of snakes and ladders. We offshore to India. They benefit and climb up the socio-economic ladder. The US immediately lands on a snake and goes down a few spots in the socio-economic ladder. Eventually, India catches up to the US and the cost to do business in their country gets too expensive and they offshore back to the US (which coincidentally has become a cheaper source of labor). We then climb back up, but not as high as we were before. They climb down a few notches and the spiral trend continues. Unless I am forgetting to consider other important factors, this trend just seems unhealthy.

    ---
    THOMASYUNG
    [ Reply to This ]
    PC Magazine: Benefits of Offshore Outsourcing
    Authored by: thomasyung on Sun, 02May04, 11:04 AM EDT
    The other point that I want to make is... looking to other countries for workers with skillsets that you cannot find in your own country is perfectly valid. However, replacing an entire workforce skillset that you already have in your country to another country's workforce who is willing to work for 10 times less, seems unethical. Nevermind the scope of country to country. If this practice was done within this country, it would probably violate anti-trust laws.

    ---
    THOMASYUNG
    [ Reply to This ]
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